Eastern Sierra News
Written by Tom Woods Wednesday, 23 September 2009 15:41
Bears getting into coolers and picnic supplies in the Lakes Basin near Mammoth are a common occurrence each summer. Visitors often are frightened away from their dinner by the animal, which then proceeds to go after the tasty treats. Usually the person gets wise, makes a bunch of noise and scares the bear off. That was not the case this week. Tuesday evening around 5:00 pm, scanner traffic appeared to indicate that there was a bear incident in the Lakes Basin. In what could be a positive sign that the various agencies are working together on wildlife again, Fish and Game, the Forest Service, Mammoth Police, and Mammoth Wildlife Manager Steve Searles all responded to investigate.
We have not yet heard back from Fish and Game, but Searles did confirm that a man shot and killed an otherwise healthy sow with a .44 caliber handgun.
The man had reportedly been fishing at Lake Mary when the sow approached, walking along the shoreline. When the sow started to eat the man’s snack food, the man reportedly went back to a vehicle for his weapon and shot the eating bear in the head from about 40 to 45 feet. From what he heard on scene, Searles reports that the sow had not shown aggression, and there was no swipe or bluff charge in this situation. He calls the shooting, “unprovoked.”
Nancy Upham with the Forest Service reports that the man has claimed self defense, but the case is still being investigated by Fish and Game. If the game warden decides that the shooting was not self defense, there could be a “hefty fine,” Upham reports.
The Forest Service could charge the man for discharging a firearm in the Lakes Basin. The Lakes Basin is inside the jurisdiction of the Town of Mammoth, so police could also file firearm charges as well, but it appears that both are waiting to see if Fish and Game investigates.
In 2006, a bow hunter with a tag shot and killed a bear next to Lake Mary. He was charged with discharging a firearm inside the limits of the Town of Mammoth, shooting from a road, and shooting within 150 feet of an occupied residence.
Upham reports that to her knowledge the man has not been cited, but the investigations continue. We’ll keep you posted if charges are filed.
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written by Native Californian , September 23, 2009
written by Native Californian , September 23, 2009
Seems to me he could have got into his vehicle and left the area safely. I guess he did suffer the" property damage" of his snacks. Doesn't take much anymore for ignorant humans to justify executing an animal and claiming self defense. Remember this is the example set by our leaders earlier this month and I believe they are as irresponsible as this imbecile.
Votes: +5
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written by G Dan Mitchell , September 23, 2009
written by G Dan Mitchell , September 23, 2009
Shooting a bear from 40-50 feet away while it snacks on the food that YOU left out is not, by the furthest stretch of the imagination "self-defense." Self-serving nonsense, yes...
This person should be charged on several counts: leaving food where the bear could get it, discharging a weapon in a campground, killing the bear. If felony stupidity were a chargeable offense, I'd add that.
Votes: +7
This person should be charged on several counts: leaving food where the bear could get it, discharging a weapon in a campground, killing the bear. If felony stupidity were a chargeable offense, I'd add that.
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written by Jay Wheaton , September 23, 2009
written by Jay Wheaton , September 23, 2009
The shooter admits it was not self defense an established threat zone is 15 feet, he is a threat to the public, I hope they throw the book at him. If he is afraid of bears he should not leave the city.
Votes: +6
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written by WTF? , September 23, 2009
written by WTF? , September 23, 2009
Wow...This guy was in such imminent danger he was able to walk back to his car, get his .44, walk back to where the dumbass left his unprotected Twinkies and execute this bear. Sounds like self defense to me. I think every idiot in the good old USofA should have the biggest gun they can carry in their car. Then the world would be a safer place. I wonder if he emptied his clip on that big bad Twinkie stealing bear. "Hey Dad, let’s go fishing at Lake Mary”...”OK son, but don't forget your flack jacket" You never know which idiot has a packing. It's the bear’s fault this guy can't give up the snack food he left in plain sight. Every agency with jurisdiction should throw the book at him!!!!
Votes: +10
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written by Eastside , September 23, 2009
written by Eastside , September 23, 2009
What a complete moron! He shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm and should be charged with at least 6 violations. Claiming self defense?? Come on!! I see a bear or two, practically every night this time of year when I take trash to our (locked) dumpster just outside our front door. I just yell and bang something, never once crossed my mind to shoot one in the head with a .44 cal. Our black bears are just like big RATS... they eat scraps and don't hurt anyone... maybe just cause property damage when conditioned to do so.
Votes: +6
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written by Howie Stern , September 23, 2009
written by Howie Stern , September 23, 2009
What bullshit!!! I come across bears all the time when I run and I have never been threatened by them...I've always worried some ignorant gun-toting tourist would do something stupid like this...People watch too many shows featuring grizzlies and they don't realize that our bears are not like that...
This really pisses me off...Once again, bears aren't the problem, it's people!
Votes: +9
This really pisses me off...Once again, bears aren't the problem, it's people!
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written by Donald E. Salac , September 23, 2009
written by Donald E. Salac , September 23, 2009
Went back to his car, then returned with a gun to shoot the bear? That makes it premeditated. Where was the self defense if he walked away?
He was defending his potato chips?
Votes: +7
He was defending his potato chips?
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written by wow , September 23, 2009
written by wow , September 23, 2009
And you wonder why Mammoth is cracking down on some of the most stupid laws they have--because of stupid people like this. Like mentioned before, how in the world is anyone buying that it was self defense--he had time to go to the car and come back and still aim and shoot? Come on! Wake up people. We live in their habitat.
Votes: +2
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written by J , September 23, 2009
written by J , September 23, 2009
Crazy, on monday on my way down from Lake George I turned onto the little bridge next to Lake Mary to see a nice big bear caught in the headlights. I followed it up the road as it was walking along the shoreline. Can't believe anyone would be so threatened that they would have time to walk back up to their car to get a gun and kill an amazing animal. What a shame!
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written by Rick O'Brien , September 23, 2009
written by Rick O'Brien , September 23, 2009
When this IDIOT went to his car,the threat was over! He was no longer in danger and instead of just driving away like anybody with a hint of common sense,he grabs his .44, which was probably already loaded, and kills a bear for doing what bears do. A bear's life for a couple of bucks worth of junk food? I concur with dan mitchell... felony stupidity!
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written by Brad , September 24, 2009
written by Brad , September 24, 2009
This is unbelievable... First why did this jerk have a weapon to begin with ?
was it concealed ? if so, another charge...
Second why did this idiot have snacks laying out? and if he did, another charge...
Yes more than a HEFTY FINE is needed in this to show a lesson to all that shooting a Bear for No Reason you should get JAIL TIME... Hopefully working one of the road crews you see wearing orange...
This is wrong in so many ways and I hope the town of Mammoth/USFS/DFG and Steve Searles will start to work together and get this problem under control... it's been going on way too long. wrong wrong wrong in all so many ways
Votes: +1
was it concealed ? if so, another charge...
Second why did this idiot have snacks laying out? and if he did, another charge...
Yes more than a HEFTY FINE is needed in this to show a lesson to all that shooting a Bear for No Reason you should get JAIL TIME... Hopefully working one of the road crews you see wearing orange...
This is wrong in so many ways and I hope the town of Mammoth/USFS/DFG and Steve Searles will start to work together and get this problem under control... it's been going on way too long. wrong wrong wrong in all so many ways
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written by Inyoite , September 24, 2009
written by Inyoite , September 24, 2009
How tragic. This man should be charged with everything law enforcement can think of. And I hope they take his guns away. I'm all for gun rights, but it's irresponsible people like this that make it hard to retain those rights.
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written by Marina , September 24, 2009
written by Marina , September 24, 2009
Did he have a permit to carry a gun? Was he cop? Is that why no charges as of yet?? What a jerk... over snacks....Throw the book at him, he had no right to shoot the bear. What an ass.
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written by Eastside , September 24, 2009
written by Eastside , September 24, 2009
Please have a followup to this story as soon as more details are provided.
Every agency within jurisdiction needs to seek MAXIMUM PENALTIES for this moron. This is the second bear killed by a lunatic tourist in the Lakes Basin in the last few years. Poaching and killing wildlife is a serious offense, but endangering the lives of innocent people recreating around the lake is even more serious!!!
Votes: +1
Every agency within jurisdiction needs to seek MAXIMUM PENALTIES for this moron. This is the second bear killed by a lunatic tourist in the Lakes Basin in the last few years. Poaching and killing wildlife is a serious offense, but endangering the lives of innocent people recreating around the lake is even more serious!!!
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written by bltnmammoth , September 24, 2009
written by bltnmammoth , September 24, 2009
This is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!! The bear is killed by "a visitor" to the area because it is doing what bears do? Where is the imminent danger the bear presented by eating this guys food? What about discharging a firearm in town limits? (a gun, no less)
Yet another "visitor" that wants his creature comforts minus the creatures!
Votes: +1
Yet another "visitor" that wants his creature comforts minus the creatures!
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written by angelle micheo , September 24, 2009
written by angelle micheo , September 24, 2009
If you are in the wild, you must make room for wildlife. I hope this guy gets more than just hefty fines.
Votes: +1
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written by Another WTF , September 24, 2009
written by Another WTF , September 24, 2009
ARE YOU SERIOUS??????? Please! SELF DEFENSE???? Of his SNACKS???? Oh yea, they need defending! STOP THIS MURDERING OF OUR LOCAL WILDLIFE! If you can't handle the wildlife, you don't belong here, you don't need to come here. AND you certainly DO NOT need to be working in a field that is suppose to PROTECT our wildlife.......F&G, etc. Get the hell OUT! Are ya all nuts??? This is our state symbol, on our state flag! Is it there with some idiot next to it brandishing a 44 caliber magnum/bow and arrow? NO! It is not! What? We're going to remove the bear off our state flag because it becomes non exsistent? STOP THIS MURDERING! I too, like you Howard, have come across many, many, bears in the many years I have lived here, even at times with dogs with me that are ferociously barking at them (is this not to be seen, in their eyes, as a threat)? Never, not one single time, have they come after me (being alone) or with my dog, but usually run the other way or quickly up a tree, scared, not coming to attack me! What the hell is wrong with this town. Are you trying to kill all the wildlife off to please the tourists? Isn't that one of the reasons they come here to our beautiful, woodsy, remote area? This is an amazing place to live and visit, but won't be for long, if all of our wild life is killed off! Especially by ignorant, macho, jerks. I sure wish they would turn this one, as well, as the infamous "bow hunter", loose to the locals to do as they see fit! Obviously, F&G, sheriff's, etc., could give a flying fig! I guess it's going to take the killing of a human by these weapon carrying idiots before the town "protectors" open their damn eyes. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!
Votes: +3
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written by Bob , September 24, 2009
written by Bob , September 24, 2009
what an idiot! Maybe he should rent a place in Old Mammoth
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written by Wayne Deja , September 24, 2009
written by Wayne Deja , September 24, 2009
Now let's see if all these feuding agencies up in Mammoth do the right thing....and arrest this out-of-town liar and idiot,and charge him with all the firearm laws he broke,as well as lying to the authorities about what he claims happened.No way possible can he claim self-defense if he went to his car to get his weapon..as well as what witnesses said they saw...Fish and Game,MLPD.....do the right thing.
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written by pirateslife , September 24, 2009
written by pirateslife , September 24, 2009
Hey! I think I saw those unattended snacks! I was REALLY HUNGRY too. Good thing I didn't eat 'em!!! I need a gun.
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written by Shane Roe , September 24, 2009
written by Shane Roe , September 24, 2009
That guy was an idiot. If a bear is going through your food, and you're away from the bear, there is no justification for shooting it. None. You can't say, "Oh noooooo, he's eating my freaking Cheetos. Where's the gun?"
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written by Mary Westlake , September 24, 2009
written by Mary Westlake , September 24, 2009
This city girl who loves to visit the wilds of Mammoth is very saddened by this story. I have worked my fingers to the bone to have the privilege to stand in sight of a bear. What a gift from Mother Nature! Shame on the shooter. It reminds me of a visit some years past to the Virginia Lakes area when some idiot from the L. A. area decided to rid the area of a popular camp bear. I was cursed with the vision of seeing it dying in pain and agony.
This criminal is no better than the thugs in Oakland and Richmond who take out children and women on a daily basis. Maximum penalties please. Who will care for the bear's offspring? Where is the humanity? How could someone be so cold?
Votes: +3
This criminal is no better than the thugs in Oakland and Richmond who take out children and women on a daily basis. Maximum penalties please. Who will care for the bear's offspring? Where is the humanity? How could someone be so cold?
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written by Jeff Klenck , September 25, 2009
written by Jeff Klenck , September 25, 2009
these are the types of people we all have to deal with now in the mountains. Whats the hold up on filing charges on the lessor crimes. He should be hit with everything they can throw at him!What a dirt bag......
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written by Wendy E. Schiotis , September 25, 2009
written by Wendy E. Schiotis , September 25, 2009
If this man had time to go back to his vehicle to retrieve his weapon, this was not a self-defense shooting. . . and he murdered that bear. My husband and I have been to Mammoth on four separate occasions this year, and my husband has been visiting Mammoth since he was a child. We have "spotted" many bears, and on one occasion, a bear came right up on to our fishing site lakeside. Not once, in all these years (more than 20), have we found it necessary to kill a bear, despite on one occasion, the bear came right up to my father-in-law, only 2 feet away from him.
This man should be brought up on charges. He had plenty of opportunity to simply leave the site, and he did, and there was no reason why he could not have chosen to instead, return to the site at a later time. . . .once the bear had left.
Votes: +3
This man should be brought up on charges. He had plenty of opportunity to simply leave the site, and he did, and there was no reason why he could not have chosen to instead, return to the site at a later time. . . .once the bear had left.
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written by Eastside , September 25, 2009
written by Eastside , September 25, 2009
Gazoo... "Irrational thought"?? First of all, killing ants with your foot, using a mousetrap to kill a mouse, fishing??? those activities don't involve a .44 cal firearm that potentially could have KILLED an innocent bystander. Look, this guy over-reacted and shot a bear needlessly. There were a lot of witnesses that saw what happened and there are a lot of FACTS OUT regarding this story. I have talked with people who were there first hand. I don't know why it is taking so long to charge this S.O.B. but I am sure he will have hefty penalities. I don't believe anyone commenting so far has had "irrational thought" until you brought up such weak analogies of killing ants, mice and fish! Sorry to be harsh, but the guy SHOT OFF A LARGE CALIBER FIREARM and killed a bear after it was eating choc. chip cookies that the guy failed to secure in the BEAR PROOF container that's provided in every campsite. He left food out, bear ate food, and he overreacted and killed it for fear of his life!
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written by Howie Stern , September 26, 2009
written by Howie Stern , September 26, 2009
Gazoo,
You're out of touch with reality...reality is, the forest and the lakes basin is the bear's home. If someone is foolish enough to leave food unattended, a bear/dog/squirrel/marmot will come to get it. Black and white issue here.
Your analogies don't fly. Fishing is for food, cows are raised to be consumed and the mice many times carry disease. So what's your point?
Emotions are strong because the responders have lived here many years and know the behavior of our bear population pretty well. The bears here don't care about hurting people, they're just after food. Once they get it, they'll go away. Messing with people is the last thing they want. On the other hand, if you act calm and cool when around a bear, they sense that and will just go away on their own. No need to go get a handgun and kill it like some bad actor in a movie.
I have come face to face numerous times in the forest with a black bear at a distance of about 30 feet while running. On one occasion, we starred each other down, I show no aggression and neither does the bear. I could tell the bear was just as curious about me as I was of him. Was it intimidating, of course because there was no escape or safety net, but that was ok because it forced me to use my mind and senses to handle the situation. You know what happened in the end? After looking at each other for 5 minutes, the bear just walked over to a tree 50 feet away and sat down. I continued on the trail and he just watched me walk away. End of story.
That's all this ignorant fool had to do when confronted with this bear, just watch and then walk away, or in his case, get in his car and drive away...What's also scary about this guy, what the hell is someone doing on vacation in Mammoth with a 44 caliber handgun in their car? Sound like someone looking for trouble...A rifle I can understand, that's a hunting weapon, but a handgun, not much use for that on the family vacation...
Votes: +3
You're out of touch with reality...reality is, the forest and the lakes basin is the bear's home. If someone is foolish enough to leave food unattended, a bear/dog/squirrel/marmot will come to get it. Black and white issue here.
Your analogies don't fly. Fishing is for food, cows are raised to be consumed and the mice many times carry disease. So what's your point?
Emotions are strong because the responders have lived here many years and know the behavior of our bear population pretty well. The bears here don't care about hurting people, they're just after food. Once they get it, they'll go away. Messing with people is the last thing they want. On the other hand, if you act calm and cool when around a bear, they sense that and will just go away on their own. No need to go get a handgun and kill it like some bad actor in a movie.
I have come face to face numerous times in the forest with a black bear at a distance of about 30 feet while running. On one occasion, we starred each other down, I show no aggression and neither does the bear. I could tell the bear was just as curious about me as I was of him. Was it intimidating, of course because there was no escape or safety net, but that was ok because it forced me to use my mind and senses to handle the situation. You know what happened in the end? After looking at each other for 5 minutes, the bear just walked over to a tree 50 feet away and sat down. I continued on the trail and he just watched me walk away. End of story.
That's all this ignorant fool had to do when confronted with this bear, just watch and then walk away, or in his case, get in his car and drive away...What's also scary about this guy, what the hell is someone doing on vacation in Mammoth with a 44 caliber handgun in their car? Sound like someone looking for trouble...A rifle I can understand, that's a hunting weapon, but a handgun, not much use for that on the family vacation...
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written by Jessie , September 26, 2009
written by Jessie , September 26, 2009
Here! Here! Howie and Eastside. I need not say anything to this, this, ???? KAZOO????? Oh sorry....Gazoo! Yea...you DO belong in a zoo. Locked in a cage. Sounds as if you might just be the guy that STUPIDLY, carries a loaded 44 caliber handgun, to our beautiful and very peaceful resort. Real smart....jack***! Hmmm.....are you? Are you the freakin idiot that shot our bear? YES! OUR BEAR!!! We live here....they live here...and, believe it or not you dumba**.....we love seeing our bears and we all get along wonderfully. Until we have these fools coming into OUR town, leaving 40lb bags of dog food around for them, shoot them (uhhh...murder them), and be a complete uneducated, idiot, that leaves your freakin "snacks" out to TEMPT the bear over. Did you plan this before coming here? Carrying a 44 in your car, going to the lake (in the evening, when bears are quite active), leaving your "snacks" out to entice her to the table and then with great glee......shoot her! Man, I just wish I could get my hands on you, that stupid woman with the dog food and the the fool with a bow and arrow. Common,use your freakin sense!!! Leave our wildlife alone and if you are so determined to harm/mame/kill our wildlife, stay the hell out of our town. SO! Put that in your pipe and smoke it Gazoo!!! I bet you're the one that shot our bear and if you're not, wouldn't put it past you, to do the same!
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written by Gazoo , September 26, 2009
written by Gazoo , September 26, 2009
Those are good points but Howie, in your face to face forest encounter if you had a gun you would have given it to the bear.
Eastside, you've got some info that the reporters don't have? That's what we're all here for. Walk us through the new facts.
Votes: -1
Eastside, you've got some info that the reporters don't have? That's what we're all here for. Walk us through the new facts.
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written by Friar Tuck , September 26, 2009
written by Friar Tuck , September 26, 2009
I'm getting the feeling that the shooter may have been a peace officer. Who else would be able to carry a loaded hand gun in his vehicle and not be arrested or cited ? Maybe a private citizen with a concealed weapons permit ?
I would like to be educated on the legalities of carrying a hand gun, loaded or otherwise in town while parked, at the lake or out in the back country.
If the gun is unloaded, legally stored and he had time to load the gun the self defense claim fails the sniff test.
Common sense dictates that the self defense claim has more holes in it then the executed bear. Who would be
allowed to do this without a citation that could be dismissed at a later date if the shooting was found to be justified?
Was the weapon confiscated pending the outcome of the investigation? If not, why not.
What are the odds that this report will be completed and released any faster then the Rusty's Bar report ?( Mono vs Inyo )
It amazes me how little official information is provided by law enforcement. Who's in charge?
Votes: +1
I would like to be educated on the legalities of carrying a hand gun, loaded or otherwise in town while parked, at the lake or out in the back country.
If the gun is unloaded, legally stored and he had time to load the gun the self defense claim fails the sniff test.
Common sense dictates that the self defense claim has more holes in it then the executed bear. Who would be
allowed to do this without a citation that could be dismissed at a later date if the shooting was found to be justified?
Was the weapon confiscated pending the outcome of the investigation? If not, why not.
What are the odds that this report will be completed and released any faster then the Rusty's Bar report ?( Mono vs Inyo )
It amazes me how little official information is provided by law enforcement. Who's in charge?
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written by Eastside , September 26, 2009
written by Eastside , September 26, 2009
Gazoo, I really don't need to spend any more time with this, but yes, I did talk with people who were there and also Steve Searles. The reporter writing this story pretty much laid out the facts...
The guy killed a bear, unprovoked, with a handgun. He broke many laws!! He overreacted and thus a dramatic end to a wild animal's life. He should have drove away if in fear for his and his partner's life. He needs to be punished and fined and this story needs publicity to make sure it doesn't happen again. Especially, now since people are allowed weapons in Nat'l Parks!!!!!! New law. This sort of thing will happen in Yosemite, just wait....
Searles needs to bring back the "Mammoth don't feed... errr SHOOT our bears" stickers.
Votes: +2
The guy killed a bear, unprovoked, with a handgun. He broke many laws!! He overreacted and thus a dramatic end to a wild animal's life. He should have drove away if in fear for his and his partner's life. He needs to be punished and fined and this story needs publicity to make sure it doesn't happen again. Especially, now since people are allowed weapons in Nat'l Parks!!!!!! New law. This sort of thing will happen in Yosemite, just wait....
Searles needs to bring back the "Mammoth don't feed... errr SHOOT our bears" stickers.
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written by Gazoo , September 27, 2009
written by Gazoo , September 27, 2009
Searles says that usually he carries a 12 gauge shotgun with both lethal and non-lethal rounds.
(source)
Funny, Searles is also the only one saying the bear had not shown aggression. The reporter should try to get statements from people who were actually there.
Votes: -1
(source)
Funny, Searles is also the only one saying the bear had not shown aggression. The reporter should try to get statements from people who were actually there.
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written by Howie Stern , September 27, 2009
written by Howie Stern , September 27, 2009
>written by Gazoo, September 26, 2009
>Those are good points but Howie, in your face to face forest encounter if you >had a gun you would have given it to the bear.>
This makes no sense so I'm not sure how to respond. I would never carry a gun in the back country of California, let alone in a National Park in this state, which is where I was. There's no reason for it here. Running in Montana or Alaska where you have grizzlies, different story...Perhaps running in the streets of Victorville or LA, it might be necessary as well :)
Common sense is unfortunately becoming a lost skill in animal/human interfaces.
Votes: +0
>Those are good points but Howie, in your face to face forest encounter if you >had a gun you would have given it to the bear.>
This makes no sense so I'm not sure how to respond. I would never carry a gun in the back country of California, let alone in a National Park in this state, which is where I was. There's no reason for it here. Running in Montana or Alaska where you have grizzlies, different story...Perhaps running in the streets of Victorville or LA, it might be necessary as well :)
Common sense is unfortunately becoming a lost skill in animal/human interfaces.
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written by Susie , September 28, 2009
written by Susie , September 28, 2009
Gazoo, sorry, but I get the feeling that you are the shooter. Gut feeling, but a feeling none the less.
If indeed you are the shooter, you have alot to learn about nature and the wildlife surrounding you.
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If indeed you are the shooter, you have alot to learn about nature and the wildlife surrounding you.
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written by bltnmammoth , September 28, 2009
written by bltnmammoth , September 28, 2009
Howie - if common sense WAS, then more people would have it.
You do have some great points - but with some people you just can't get there from here.
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You do have some great points - but with some people you just can't get there from here.
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written by Dave , September 28, 2009
written by Dave , September 28, 2009
Did I miss something in the articles and news accounts of this story?
How did all of this conjecture about the shooter being a police officer get started? Someone please enlighten me if I missed the facts about him being a police officer.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
We can tell you no official source has described the suspect as a police officer.
Benett Kessler
Votes: +0
How did all of this conjecture about the shooter being a police officer get started? Someone please enlighten me if I missed the facts about him being a police officer.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
We can tell you no official source has described the suspect as a police officer.
Benett Kessler
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written by Native Californian , September 29, 2009
written by Native Californian , September 29, 2009
No Dave, what you have missed is the official report that seems to take forever whenever someone of privilege is involved.( Rusty's Bar ) Us commoners are advertised in the next week's newspaper if you haven't noticed without a conviction.
The fact that little official information is forthcoming makes me believe that the fix is in . If Paco or Tyrone had committed such a shooting I'm quite sure this would have turned out quite differently. No Gaffe intended!
Conjecture would be thinking that the beer and tortillas mentality is isolated to the forest service in Colorado.
It's obvious to this common man that special treatment was awarded in this case, I for one would like an explanation as to why no criminal action was not taken on the spot for the discharging of a fire arm. It could always be dismissed by a judge if the shooting was justified. It appears that the law community has taken it upon itself to be judge and jury with its failure to act in this situation.
He may not be a current police officer, but he's obviously not your average BEAR !
Votes: +1
The fact that little official information is forthcoming makes me believe that the fix is in . If Paco or Tyrone had committed such a shooting I'm quite sure this would have turned out quite differently. No Gaffe intended!
Conjecture would be thinking that the beer and tortillas mentality is isolated to the forest service in Colorado.
It's obvious to this common man that special treatment was awarded in this case, I for one would like an explanation as to why no criminal action was not taken on the spot for the discharging of a fire arm. It could always be dismissed by a judge if the shooting was justified. It appears that the law community has taken it upon itself to be judge and jury with its failure to act in this situation.
He may not be a current police officer, but he's obviously not your average BEAR !
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written by localmom , September 30, 2009
written by localmom , September 30, 2009
Do we need to wear bullet proof vest at the lakes now i just want to be prepared when i go up there with my kids!!
Votes: -1
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written by really now , September 30, 2009
written by really now , September 30, 2009
I was thinking of chopping the roof off of an old armored vehicle and using it for tours of the area! Kind of like a Pope-mobile.
Votes: -1
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written by really now , September 30, 2009
written by really now , September 30, 2009
In the Town of Mammoth Lakes it is only an infraction to discharge a firearm. Only if the Officer witnessed the shooting would he be able to cite him for the infraction (it is the same as a moving violation). The Mono County Ordinance is written in a manner as to which I have no idea what type of crime it is (misd, or infraction).
Everyone screams about "Reckless Endangerment", I do not know if that is a crime, I am pretty sure it is not. The Police are limited in situations like this. There are rules to their Powers of Arrest! Everyone needs to relax and let the Criminal Justice System work at its own pace.
Votes: -1
Everyone screams about "Reckless Endangerment", I do not know if that is a crime, I am pretty sure it is not. The Police are limited in situations like this. There are rules to their Powers of Arrest! Everyone needs to relax and let the Criminal Justice System work at its own pace.
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written by really now , September 30, 2009
written by really now , September 30, 2009
The Mono County Code Violation for discharge of a weapon is a Misdeamenor punishable by 6 months or a fine or both.
Votes: +0
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written by Rick , October 04, 2009
written by Rick , October 04, 2009
When this IDIOT went to his car,the threat was over!
No, the threat never existed at all.
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written by C Hoff , October 05, 2009
written by C Hoff , October 05, 2009
Kudos to the folks who have the courage to stand behind their words-and publish their own names!!!! Cleland Hoff
Votes: -4
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written by Gazoo , October 05, 2009
written by Gazoo , October 05, 2009
Considering a major element of this series of news stories is about potential prosecution, Cleland would do well to write an essay on why lynch mobs similar to these comments are the antithesis of justice. Include why Lady Justice wears a blindfold. Include why the Oath of Office for the Supreme Court begins, "I do solemnly swear that I will administer justice without respect to persons..."
Votes: -1
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written by We the People , October 06, 2009
written by We the People , October 06, 2009
Cleland;
Are you so naive that you think Deep Throat of Watergate fame was interested in advertising a porn movie or protecting an identity? I believe his message was follow the money, not follow the honey. Do you honestly think he or $he was lacking courage?
Why do you think reporters have been jailed to protect a confidential source? Do you think that just maybe the reporter felt the source had reason to fear retaliation? Do you see a lack of courage here? Not me, I see a novice reporter that is not working hard enough for the information and story she seeks. She wants to google a name and let her fingers do the walking or an e-mail do the talking.
Freedom of speech is an oxymoron, truth be known it's far from FREE. For many law abiding people it has proven to be quite expensive. Some have been set up with bogus charges that have cost them their life's savings to defend themselves, not to mention the ones having been falsely convicted and jailed. The countless lives lost trying to protect the rights of the people against the misuse of power by various civilian organizations, including some media and some branches of local, state and federal governments . What do you think the civil rights movement was all about? The violation of civil rights or those who spoke and wrote opinions about the violations?
Personally I think you should be more concerned about what someone is saying, instead of concentrating on who is saying it. This issues is not about writer profiling, its about the responsible treatment of animals and the accountability of those in charge.
People protecting their privacy, safety and lively hoods while still participating in the process and debate are not cowards. They are making observations based on their train of thought and just because they don't sign it to your liking does not mean they don't own the words or the thoughts. It means you are going to have to work harder if you are ever going to be taken seriously as a reporter. Just tell the story as honestly and accurately as possible.
People signing a name to an opinion or a response to an opinion does not meet my definition of courage. It Is what it is just another opinion.
Kudos
EDITOR'S NOTE:
First, we stand behind Cleland Hoff and her belief that comments should include real names. That, in fact, is our policy.
If someone wants to function as a whistleblower with important information that the public needs, remain anonymous. We respect that.
Benett Kessler
Votes: +0
Are you so naive that you think Deep Throat of Watergate fame was interested in advertising a porn movie or protecting an identity? I believe his message was follow the money, not follow the honey. Do you honestly think he or $he was lacking courage?
Why do you think reporters have been jailed to protect a confidential source? Do you think that just maybe the reporter felt the source had reason to fear retaliation? Do you see a lack of courage here? Not me, I see a novice reporter that is not working hard enough for the information and story she seeks. She wants to google a name and let her fingers do the walking or an e-mail do the talking.
Freedom of speech is an oxymoron, truth be known it's far from FREE. For many law abiding people it has proven to be quite expensive. Some have been set up with bogus charges that have cost them their life's savings to defend themselves, not to mention the ones having been falsely convicted and jailed. The countless lives lost trying to protect the rights of the people against the misuse of power by various civilian organizations, including some media and some branches of local, state and federal governments . What do you think the civil rights movement was all about? The violation of civil rights or those who spoke and wrote opinions about the violations?
Personally I think you should be more concerned about what someone is saying, instead of concentrating on who is saying it. This issues is not about writer profiling, its about the responsible treatment of animals and the accountability of those in charge.
People protecting their privacy, safety and lively hoods while still participating in the process and debate are not cowards. They are making observations based on their train of thought and just because they don't sign it to your liking does not mean they don't own the words or the thoughts. It means you are going to have to work harder if you are ever going to be taken seriously as a reporter. Just tell the story as honestly and accurately as possible.
People signing a name to an opinion or a response to an opinion does not meet my definition of courage. It Is what it is just another opinion.
Kudos
EDITOR'S NOTE:
First, we stand behind Cleland Hoff and her belief that comments should include real names. That, in fact, is our policy.
If someone wants to function as a whistleblower with important information that the public needs, remain anonymous. We respect that.
Benett Kessler
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